Letterboxing USA - Yahoo Groups Archive

A message from Pandora

3 messages in this thread | Started on 2004-09-26

A message from Pandora

From: Melanie (maiden1974@verizon.net) | Date: 2004-09-26 15:53:10 UTC-07:00
Since Pandora is not part of this list any longer, nor has she been for
awhile now, she has asked me to post this for her. These are her words, her
letter, I am simply posting it for a friend.

Good Evening Everyone,



Considering I am no longer a member of the LNBA board let me first say that
I am asking someone to forward this letter to the board after being
forwarded the recent threads on LBWORLD because I think I can clear up some
of what is being said.



First and foremost let me go back and clarify, and answer some peoples
questions. What Steve and Heidi say unfortunately is a little misleading
and leaves out some information. Randy Hall the owner of this list very
much took a dictatorship roll. Several days before Iron`Bear and I were
removed as moderators Randy Hall wrote all of the moderators and proposed
that Steve be banned from the list. The moderators disagreed with Randy for
several reasons. I lead the argument against banning Steve based on the
fact that there was no rule written anywhere as a foundation to ban Steve
on. My fellow moderators agreed. At that point Randy without speaking to
any of the other moderators, removed Iron`Bear and I as moderators. First
Randy told us that we were removed because 5 people had written him asking
we be removed. Then we were told we were removed because we promoted Steves
site and the poison it spread. Immediately after that posts regarding
Iron`Bear and I being dismissed as moderators were deleted from the list. In
other words, we were censored. That censorship and Randys decision to
dismiss us over this issue is what caused Iron`Bear and I to leave the list.
Several days after that Steve received an email from Randy Hall that said.
I've discussed this with my Moderators and you are being banned (removed,
dropped, cant remember) because of your incessant advertising and the
content of your website.



Now in regards to LBWORLD being hacked; nobody is pointing fingers at anyone
and saying this person did this. However it is painfully obvious that this
is something related to letterboxing and that Steves site is being targeted
let me explain why we know this.



1.. The first time Steves website was hacked he received email through an
anonymous email program that read something to the effect of Learn not to
piss off the wrong people in this hobby.
2.. After that and when Iron`Bear and I were working with others to
organize the Stamp Camp event Steve and I both received anonymous emails
telling us that we would pay dearly if Steve was not on his best behavior at
this event because there were rumors that some people that Steve had
conflicts with might attend.
3.. When the website was hacked into this time we knew it was malicious,
Iron`Bear and Steve and I immediately went to work to get someone
technically capable of figuring out what happened working on the job.
Iron`Bear and I pulled some strings with old FBI friends of his, hired an
attorney in case we ended up needing one, and Steve had some extra help this
time because he was able to take the hard drive into work (He words Security
at a VERY well known computer company) and have them look at it. This time,
the hard drive was fried, the backup files of the site were corrupted with
viruses and in the directory structure of the hard drive a message was left
that read and I quote home/we/were/here/first in addition to that script
messages were left as well that read There can be only one


It is not hard to figure out that someone out there involved in this hobby,
is targeting the LBAWORLD website and the people that run it.



Now in regards to the LBPNW list: And this may very well get me removed from
the list. But I personally spoke with Ryan about this and what Ryan says is
very true. Steve did leave the list on his own the first time, and when he
tried to come back he was told that he was not welcome there, that he had
his play ground and Ryan had his. I told Ryan personally that I felt this
was a dictatorship role. I dont think LBPNW is Ryans playground, I think
its a community, and him deciding to outcast someone from it for his own
personal reasons I think is completely out of line. However, Ryan owns the
list, he can do what he wants, and if we dont like it, we can leave, as
Ryan told me when I spoke to him about it.



The concept that Steve and LBWORLD are dividers is absolutely incorrect.
That is the opinion of a select few that want it that way. As much as Ryan
and others may say publicly that they do not want this community divided,
not letting Steve re-join, and telling me personally that events hosted by
the LBWORLD website cannot be advertised on the LBPNW board speak volumes of
the togetherness that Ryan is trying to achieve. I like Ryan very much, he
and I talk often, but Im sorry, this is my opinion.



In regards to this LBNA list being peaceful and the community being together
before Steve came along, Im sorry that could not be farther from the truth.
Go through the archives and you can see that for yourselves. This hobby has
been divided more than once. There are still some people around here that
were here when it all began, ask Der Mad Stamp, Randy Hall, Susan Davis, if
this was always peaceful and always a united community.



All that said let me conclude my informative diatribe with a heartfelt
message. When I left this list I made a final post saying that my being
removed as a moderator and my leaving the list was no big deal, to let it
go, that the list didnt need to argue over it, that was what I had always
tried to stop as a moderator, the arguing and the flame wars. I still feel
that way my fellow letterboxers. While I will not sit by idly and watch
while those that try to support and defend me are slapped around for doing
so, I honestly do not wish arguments on the LBNA list or any other list for
that matter that focus on LBWORLD or the people that run it. I know that
Iron`Bear and Steve and Kris of Team Rayvenhaus agree with me completely. I
ask you all, please let it go, let it die, we want a peaceful happy place,
if you want to be a part of that with us you know where to find us, and
there is no reason to argue about us or our website, it does none of us any
good, in fact, the truth is my friends, and enemies, the more attention you
give to what happened the more you encourage someone to try and do it again.



I bid you all well and much happiness,

Pandora




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A message from Pandora

From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) | Date: 2004-09-26 23:18:40 UTC
I'm going to stick my nose into this post. I'm not going to discuss
anything other than to advise folks that they should not discuss
this further. Once someone states those words "hired an attorney" it
is fools play to continue with any conversation. Many times this is
used as a standard argument ploy, but it should not be taken as
such. Discussing various merits of the occurences or the occurences
themselves will not help anyone and could be very problematical.I'm
not a moderator, but this should definately be taken off the table.

Don




Re: A message from Pandora

From: rscarpen (letterboxing@atlasquest.com) | Date: 2004-09-27 01:51:48 UTC
> The concept that Steve and LBWORLD are dividers is absolutely
> incorrect.

When the first person on LbNA took all their boxes off from LbNA,
unsubscribed from the talk list, and moved over to Steve's website,
he became a divider. It became an us vs. them.

You may not see it that way, but Steve, I believe, is the seed that's
splitting letterboxing. There are other contributing factors, but
the root cause, I firmly believe, is Steve.

Nobody has denied there have been arguments in the past--but I've
never seen them morph into a permanent rift in the letterboxing
community.

And as personal as you think my decision was to not allow Steve not
to post to the Pacific Northwest board (*not* banned, though it's
mostly semantics), it was also my belief that he's an unstable
influence that would cause the board to deteriorate, and it's my job
as a moderator to stop that sort of thing.

If you call that censorship, so be it. Technically, any board that
requires a moderator is censorship--just knowing there are moderators
on the board who could nuke your post or ban you will make one think
twice about what to post. So please don't post about 'censorship'
with such a broad stroke--especially when WoL suffers the same fate.
I know I certainly wouldn't feel welcome there, thus, I am being
censored.

> Now in regards to the LBPNW list: And this may very well get me
> removed from the list.

I don't remove people who disagree with me. Disagreements and
discussions are generally healthy. They sort out misunderstandings
and allow us to get on with life. I respect someone's right to
disagree, but I will also do my best to help protect the LbNA
community that has given so much to me.

-- Ryan